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Unread 01-17-2014   #1 (permalink)
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Question Question about "training"

Hi all .....
I was with a person yesterday and we were talking about our pets. She has a shock collar for her dog .... not the invisible fence, but if the dog gets too close to doing something he shouldn't she presses a little button and it gives him a very mild shock.
I was talking about Daisy, and her mischievous, naughty behavior, and she suggested a cat shock collar. I didn't know what to think about that. Part of me thought it was cruel, and yet I didn't know for sure. I don't even know if there are such things for cats.
What do you all think about these? Any input you can give me would be appreciated. Many thanks,
abby
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Unread 01-17-2014   #2 (permalink)
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I don't know if these devices are made for cats, but my opinion is that they are not a good thing for animals. It's my opinion that causing pain or discomfort to an animal in order to modify its behavior is not the best way to go. I believe that it's much better for the animal if s/he is gently discouraged from engaging in undesirable behavior, and strongly encouraged to engage in desirable behavior. There tons of places on the web where you can find suggestions and methods for training cats, these are just a few - you'll have to copy and paste, as I do not yet have enough posts to provide actual links:

wikihow.com/Train-a-Cat-to-Stop-Doing-Almost-Anything

aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/training-your-cat

perfectpaws.com/cat_training_and_cat_behavior.html

pets.webmd.com/cats/guide/kitten-training-tips
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Unread 01-17-2014   #3 (permalink)
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Horrible and cruel. Inhumane. Illegal or about to be illegal in most civilized countries.


Training with pain is never a good idea.


Your friend is a jerk. And LAZY. Why doesn't she learn how to train her dog properly?

Be sure Daisy gets plenty of interactive play time from you, at least 4 sessions a day. A tired cat is a good cat.

Redirect unwanted behaviors with play. What is she doing that is "naughty" or "mischievous"?

Make sure she has enough places to climb and jump on, and feed her a good quality canned diet.

Shock collars. Awful.
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Last edited by acerlt; 01-17-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2014   #4 (permalink)
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Default Blackwolf ......

Thanks much for the web pages .... I'll give them a good look over tonight.
abby
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Unread 01-17-2014   #5 (permalink)
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Please share with us what behavior of Daisy's is bothering you so much. I'm sure I can help you with behavior modification without resorting to pain.

Most likely she just needs more interactive attention from you, but specifics will help.

Don't be fooled by your friend's comment about a "mild shock". Those collars are extremely painful and cause animals they are used on a lot of stress. They are cruel and unnecessary.
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Unread 01-17-2014   #6 (permalink)
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I've had cats for 30 years ... love them to death. I was merely asking about these collars, not intending to get one, unless others felt it was an OK to do. Daisy, my 4 year old Turkish Van is as sweet as she can be, when she doesn't get the "itch" into her. She will eat all my plants down to the nub (and yes, I do keep live growing grass for her and I get nothing poisonous), so I have resorted to only African Violets as she doesn't like the fuzzy leaves. But, being a plant lover I was able to purchase a large pony tail palm about 6 months ago .... as you can imagine ..... BIG temptation to her. I was hoping to keep it in my bedroom, but finally resorted to putting it in the extra bedroom where she doesn't go. I tried spraying the plant with vinegar in water and spritzing her with just plain water when I would catch her, to no avail. That is when she snuck in when I was in there. She will get on any table or counter, see what's up there, and if it's lightweight enough, she pushes it to the edge, pushes it off with her foot, then leans over and watches it fall and break. Obviously after several times of this, I put everything that was of any value away and only sat things out that if they broke, it didn't matter. Somehow, she is able to get up on the mantle over the fireplace, which is where I have my Beta Fish in a tall bowl. She's pushed off 2 jarred candles, 4 ceramic sheep (I love sheep). Anything she can push, she does. Then there's the "other side" of Daisy ...... sweet, affectionate, wants to be with me all the time, sits on my lap and always curls up with me when I take a nap. I have several toys I play with her ..... she likes the cat dancer the most and flips in the air like an acrobat.
When I got her, I got her from a Vet. Tech. who said the people who had her got her when she was a kitten - she was 1 when I took her. They took her to their Vet. and said they just couldn't handle her anymore. But she was so pretty with such rabbit like fur I couldn't resist.
So, there you have it. If I could stop her from knocking things off tables and counters (and all my makeup on the floor), and watching them fall and break, I'd be delighted. I've thought of taking her for walks, but am not sure what kind of harness to get for her. It would have to be a good sturdy one so she wouldn't be able to slip it and run.
Up until a month ago I had a 12 year old red Abyssinian cat, but she had to be put down as she was full of cancer in her stomach. She would follow Daisy around and watch her antics.
Anyhow, I've babbled enough ..... that's the story of Daisy.
abby
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Unread 01-18-2014   #7 (permalink)
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For a good, safe and comfortable cat harness, try the Kitty Holster cat harness. It's what we use, and our cats have always been very quick to accept wearing them, and unable to slip out of them.

kittyholster.com/
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These are normal things for cats to do, not naughtiness. Punishment, such as spraying water is not effective because cats just don't respond to punishment well. A shock collar of course would just be cruel and teach the cat to live in fear.

Redirection, or eliminating the temptation is really the best way to prevent a cat from eating a plant or knocking your things over.

I have a friend who used to complain about her cat knocking their beverage glasses over. She said every time someone "left a glass on the table in the living room" the cat would knock it over. The solution seems simple to me. Don't leave glasses with liquid in them where the cat can get at them.

Knocking things off and watching them fall is very normal cat behavior. It is just something cats do. I call it Gravity Experiments.

There is even a youtube video that makes the rounds now and then - a compilation of cats knocking things off.

Use quake hold as a fixative to hold displayed items in place, and keep other things in trays, boxes or put them away.

Set up things in Daisy's own spots that she can knock over. Put a line of toys along the edge of her cat tree platform, or along the edge of a bookcase she likes to sit on, or the top of a dresser.

I have several shelves and areas set up with my cats own toys for them to knock them down. When they do knock them down I pick them up and put them back. I rotate the toys in these spots, to keep it interesting for them.

The plant, it's the same thing. Some cats like to chew on plants. You can try bitter apple sprayed on the plant, or simply keeping the plant somewhere Daisy can't get at it. She sounds very determined! I don't keep any houseplants, mainly for fear they would eat something toxic to them.

Harness training for walks is a great idea! My cats are harness trained, in summer I take them out in a fenced yard. I can help you with harness training, if you are interested, I have trained both kittens and adult cats.

At three years old Daisy is still quite kittenish and still needs a lot of interactive play time from you. Be sure to play interactive games with her several times a day. This will go a long way toward keeping her happy and less likely to do things you don't want her to do.

Remember also that diet plays a very important part in a cat's behavior. Feed a good quality canned diet (or raw diet) to keep her feeling her best at all times.
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Unread 01-18-2014   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks blackwolf ...... I'll get one and give it a try. I think she might like to go outside and look around.
abby

Gail .... Thanks for all the valuable information ..... I've written some of it down. Unfortunately I live in a condo so some things are difficult, but I'll give it a shot. What is quake hold? I've never heard of that. I have "ticky tack" ...... is it something like that? She doesn't touch the violets at all, but that pony tail palm should have a room of its own! It's huge and as soon as it warms up it's going out on the deck.
You'll be interested to know that the same friend who recommended the shock collar also recommended I have nothing but cactus! OMG ..... now that sounds awful to me.
Re. toys .... she loves the cat dancer, and toys with catnip in them (as long as it's strong enough.) What else do you recommend. I can't afford a cat tree .... I've looked at them on sale and wanted one but even on sale they're way out of my budget range. Blackwolf suggested a good harness and I'm going to get one today. Re. food, I give her Blue Buffalo, dry mixed with wet. She loves it. Right now, as I'm typing this, she's sitting on my legs, with her head peeking around the corner. Thanks for all your help.
abby

Last edited by amberpep; 01-18-2014 at 12:43 PM.
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Unread 12-29-2014   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks much for the web pages
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