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Unread 01-25-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Very Important Questions about my two Kittens

1. One of my kittens, Angel smells like poop (not very angelic, that one)..I've checked and there's nothing there..no poop on his fur or anything like that..it just smells..poop is very soft though..almost like a puddle so i'm giving him yakult like my vet (shelter vet) said..i'm not sure what else to do..i doubt that they're worms coz they just had their 2nd dose of dewormer (a few days ago)..

2. Said kitten is not very "active"..I don't know if he's sick or not..He won't play as much as his brother..He won't respond to treats..Nor would he respond to toys..Unless his brother has been playing with the toy for quite some time..And even then all he does is swat at the toy once or twice..What can I do to help him respond to the treats or toys..?..

3. Said kitten also has the weird habit of suddenly racing around, meowing as he goes..Doesn't look at all like he's enjoying herself when he does that..Doesn't sound like it either..he also tries to bite his tail or the base of the tail..and then he'll be ok for awhile..informed my vet and he said, give the vitamins first..Haven't seen a change yet though..Could this be something horrible or just normal behavior and I'm worried over nothing..?..

4. The other kitten, Wagner (brother to the previous kitten) roughhouses with Angel all of the time..When Angel is sleeping, he wakes him up..Pounces on him all the time..Bites..Claws..I know kittens like to roughhouse with each other, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to let Wagner just do that so much..Angel seems to not have so much energy..What do you think..?..Should I interfere or not..?..

5. Both also smell like cat litter..Not the soiled cat litter, but the litter itself..I use swheat scoop, which has a wheat-y scent..And well, although its natural, the fact that it's cat litter, makes me NOT like it..I use catwipes on them everyday (Earthland or something..I got it from healthy options)..They still smell like that..What should I do..?..

**I feed them a combination of dry and wet (50-50) foods from Natural Balance/Felidae and an occasional Tiki Cat..I'm concerned because they'll be getting their anti-rabies shots and the vet mentioned that if their health don't improve, the shots could weaken them so much that they could die..They're my first kitty cats and I don't want that to happen..I've only had them 6 days =[..[they were adopted from a shelter]..They're also not neutered yet coz they're still too young..Accdg to the vet, I have to bring them back in 3-4 months for the neutering..

Please help..And I apologize for the length of this post..

Additional Details
The kittens weren't exactly indoor cats..They're from a feral litter and were almost run over by their rescuer, who in the end fostered them..That's why I'm quite concerned about the rabies..I'm still training them not to play bite, but I have nightmares about contracting rabies..I'm in the Philippines and the shots are traditional and still quite painful..

I'm so confused..
 
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Unread 01-26-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Hello, welcome, and thank you for giving two shelter babies a forever home.

I'm sorry you are having these worries with your new kittens.
.
The Rabies vaccine is important, and necessary, though I don't think you have to worry that they have rabies, and will give it to you, if they were rabid I don't think they'd be alive.


How old are they? I'm glad they are under a vet's care, but if you are not satisfied with the suggestions and treatments of the vet, I recommend you take them to a different vet for a second opinion.

There are a few things that can affect young kittens, esp ones born of a feral mother. They could have Feline Leukemia (FeLV) or Feline Aids (FIV). They could have genetic problems from inbreeding.

It could be simply an upper respiratory infection Angel has making him feel poorly, and antibiotics will take care of it.

Unfortunately FeLV and FIV testing is not recommended until they or 5 or 6 months old because before that age they can show a false positive from their mother's immunity.

Hopefully all they need is time to reap the benefits of good nutrition and the loving care you are giving them.

I recommend you bring a stool sample from each cat in to the vet, and have them tested again for parasites. Do they have fleas? This could cause problems, too.

Perhaps Angel just has a little upper respiratory infection that is making him feel bad.

Odor can indicate infection, or maybe just not used to the good food you are feeding them. Check his mouth, maybe the odor is coming from there? That could indicate a rotten tooth.


If Angel appears to be in real distress when Wagner pounces and plays with him, perhaps you should interrupt. It's hard to say, not being able to see them together. You can keep their nails trimmed that will help prevent injury.

I am not a vet, just trying to give you some possibilities to think about.

Please do let us know how they go on.
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Unread 01-26-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Oh thank goodness..Rabies was a major concern of mine..Here, I think they still do those shots to the stomach and just thinking about that already makes me want to faint..

They're approximately 2 months old..And didn't really have any problem when I got them..In fact, Angel bounded up on the couch the first day, sought the most comfortable spot he could find and promptly went to sleep..He looked so adorable..!.. .. so imagine my worry when I noticed him beginning to demonstrate a little "weakness"..

I brought them to the vet and informed him, I'd like to wait until Angel recovers as I'm afraid they'd waste away if given the anti-rabies vaccine too soon..He did give me some antibiotics..Will that cure respiratory infections too, just in case..?..

Feline Leukemia and Feline Aids..?..They sound deadly..Are they as deadly as their human counterparts..?....I hope we have those tests conducted here..And if yes, that they test positive..I'm crossing my fingers..

I checked and the odor really is coming from his bottom..I asked the vet about it and he said that's normal because of the quality of the stool..?..Something like that..?..And it would improve once the stool quality improves..?..

By the way, how would I know if they have fleas..?..I used the OTC kind..Flee, Fleas I think..I got it from healthy options and it was supposed to be all natural and safe..

Err, how could I differentiate the play growl and the distress growl really..?..This is the first time I've been around 2 kittens actually and sometimes cannot decipher their language..
 
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Unread 01-26-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Oh dear, I am very sorry to hear that you have used over the counter flea drops on your kittens. This is not a good idea, and I advise you to not use any more. OTC flea drops, regardless of what they say on the box, can be very dangerous, and have been known to kill cats.

When did you do the treatment? A bad reaction normally would show up in the first few days after using them.

Keep the packaging and call the vet to tell him what you have put on the kittens.

The safest effective spot on flea products are frontline plus for cats, advantage for cats, and revolution for cats. Each product has some differences which I can explain if you want.

Call your vet and tell him what you have put on the kittens as this may be what's affecting Angel. Some of those products are very toxic. "Natural" does not always mean safe.

Yes, antibiotics will help the URI (upper respiratory infection). URIs can be stubborn and difficult to treat so be sure Angel gets every dose as prescribed, until they are gone.

Some kitties get an upset tummy or diarrhea from antibiotics so you may want to give Angel a little yogurt every day to help keep his intestinal flora healthy. The diarrhea happens because the antibiotics kills ALL the bacteria, not just the bad ones, but the good ones too. Yogurt (a probiotic) will help restore balance.

The rabies shot is normally given in the right flank. Rabies is spread by bites from an affected animal. Your kittens would not have survived, had they been bitten by a rabid animal.

To see if your kittens still have fleas part the fur at their necks, or below the shoulder bones and scratch at that area, or look low down on their tummies. You are looking for areas of little black specks. That is "flea dirt". If you see that on your kittens, then they still have fleas.

You will have to ask the vet about any additional treatment though, for now, because of those drops you used before. You may have to wait a while before using a safer product.

Since they are black kittens you may have trouble seeing flea dirt, but you should be able to feel it, and it will get under your finger nail. Check where they sleep. Are they leaving little black specks under them? Moisten the specks, if it turns a rusty red it is flea dirt.

Since they are litter mates and have been together all their lives I'm going to guess that they are just playing. Lots of cats make noises, growls, hisses, squeaks, when they tumble together.

However if one kitten is weaker than the other, he could potentially get hurt. Check them over for injuries, bites, deep claw digs. Watch for tufts of fur being pulled out.

If you aren't seeing any of those things, it is probably all right. Since Angel is weaker than Wagner, keeping an eye out would be a good idea, if you think Angel is getting pummeled too much,
separate them.

Feline Leukemia (FeLV) and Feline Aids (FIV) are very serious diseases and there is no cure for them. They both affect the immune system so cats with these diseases get sick more often that healthy cats.

FeLV is spread from cat to cat through body fluid contact such as sharing dishes and litter boxes, or even being sneezed on by an infected cat. It can also be spread from mother to kitten. If the mother has been tested and is healthy, very likely the kittens are, too.

FIV is spread primarily through deep bite wounds, but also from mother to kitten. Again, if mother has tested negative for these diseases, the kittens probably are okay, too.

Many cats can live a few years of good quality of life with either disease, before succumbing to some infection or other. Some people opt to put cats down if they receive this diagnosis, others prefer to keep kitty as long as she is healthy and happy. the challenge is extra vet bills and a lot of extra work.

I hope I have helped to answer your questions. Please do not hesitate to ask any more, and please let me know how Angel and Wagner are doing, I care about them
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Unread 01-26-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Unread 01-26-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
Oh dear, I am very sorry to hear that you have used over the counter flea drops on your kittens. This is not a good idea, and I advise you to not use any more. OTC flea drops, regardless of what they say on the box, can be very dangerous, and have been known to kill cats.

When did you do the treatment? A bad reaction normally would show up in the first few days after using them.

Keep the packaging and call the vet to tell him what you have put on the kittens.

The safest effective spot on flea products are frontline plus for cats, advantage for cats, and revolution for cats. Each product has some differences which I can explain if you want.

Call your vet and tell him what you have put on the kittens as this may be what's affecting Angel. Some of those products are very toxic. "Natural" does not always mean safe.
Oh no..I used them a day after I got them..I noticed that I was getting itchy everytime I handled them so I thought they had fleas..*I never imagined it could be because of allergic reactions*

And the next day, I noticed the symptoms..Oh I could kill myself for my stupidity..I thought since it was natural, it's safe..

I did tell the vet that I sprayed some anti-flea stuff that I got from Healthy Options..and he said that's probably just a repellant..And moved on to giving the kitties their dewormer shots..

I guess I'll just have to go back to show him the bottle..God, I hope it's non-toxic..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
Yes, antibiotics will help the URI (upper respiratory infection). URIs can be stubborn and difficult to treat so be sure Angel gets every dose as prescribed, until they are gone.

Some kitties get an upset tummy or diarrhea from antibiotics so you may want to give Angel a little yogurt every day to help keep his intestinal flora healthy. The diarrhea happens because the antibiotics kills ALL the bacteria, not just the bad ones, but the good ones too. Yogurt (a probiotic) will help restore balance.
Should it be plain yogurt..?..Mixed with food..?..If so, what amount would be most beneficial..?..I feed the kittens small meals 3x a day..Sometimes with a snack before we all go to sleep..I was supposed to give them 2mL Yakult with the first and third meal..and the antibiotics with the 2nd meal..So I'll just switch to yogurt..?..doesn't yogurt contain lactose..?..

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The rabies shot is normally given in the right flank. Rabies is spread by bites from an affected animal. Your kittens would not have survived, had they been bitten by a rabid animal.
Oh thank goodness..!..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
Since they are black kittens you may have trouble seeing flea dirt, but you should be able to feel it, and it will get under your finger nail. Check where they sleep. Are they leaving little black specks under them? Moisten the specks, if it turns a rusty red it is flea dirt.
Thanks for the info..I'll do this as soon as I get home..Hopefully, they don't have any fleas..Because the bottle says wait 2-6 weeks before reapplying..So I'm thinking, if I had to use anti-flea products again, I'd have to wait (have the kitties endure the itch) that long..i really wish i hadn't bought that bottle..*sigh*

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
Since Angel is weaker than Wagner, keeping an eye out would be a good idea, if you think Angel is getting pummeled too much, separate them.
Ok, will supervise them when they play..I'm just concerned because I'm not home all the time..Sometimes Wagner even wakes Angel up, when he's trying to rest..Most of the time I just let him, or should I not allow that..?..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
FeLV is spread from cat to cat through body fluid contact such as sharing dishes and litter boxes, or even being sneezed on by an infected cat. It can also be spread from mother to kitten. If the mother has been tested and is healthy, very likely the kittens are, too.

FIV is spread primarily through deep bite wounds, but also from mother to kitten. Again, if mother has tested negative for these diseases, the kittens probably are okay, too.
Thanks for this very enlightening post..I'll try to not think about these 2 diseases yet..No need to worry about something that may not even exist right..?....Quick question though, these cannot possibly transmit to humans, right..?..To babies or small children maybe..?..

I won't be able to check the mom, because she was feral and, I think, got hit by a car....So i'm hoping she didn't have those diseases..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
I hope I have helped to answer your questions. Please do not hesitate to ask any more, and please let me know how Angel and Wagner are doing, I care about them
All I can say is wow..It's like I'm reading an encyclopedia..Only not that boring..lol..Thanks so much..!!..

*Btw, is it possible to post pictures here..?..*
 
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Unread 01-26-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Oh no..I used them a day after I got them..I noticed that I was getting itchy everytime I handled them so I thought they had fleas..*I never imagined it could be because of allergic reactions*

How long ago was that?

And the next day, I noticed the symptoms..Oh I could kill myself for my stupidity..I thought since it was natural, it's safe..

You're not stupid. You didn't know.

I did tell the vet that I sprayed some anti-flea stuff that I got from Healthy Options..and he said that's probably just a repellant..And moved on to giving the kitties their dewormer shots..

I guess I'll just have to go back to show him the bottle..God, I hope it's non-toxic..

How is Angel doing now?



Should it be plain yogurt..?..Mixed with food..?..If so, what amount would be most beneficial..?..I feed the kittens small meals 3x a day..Sometimes with a snack before we all go to sleep..I was supposed to give them 2mL Yakult with the first and third meal..and the antibiotics with the 2nd meal..So I'll just switch to yogurt..?..doesn't yogurt contain lactose..?..

plain yogurt is fine, though my kitty who likes yogurt prefers orange creme, pineapple or lime!

Any yogurt is okay, as long as there is no fake sugar in it.

About a fingerful a day. A teaspoon. If he'll eat it mixed in his food, great. See if he'll just lick it off the spoon first.

Yogurt is different from milk and shouldwill not cause diarrhea like milk will in some cats.

What is the Yakult?



Thanks for the info..I'll do this as soon as I get home..Hopefully, they don't have any fleas..Because the bottle says wait 2-6 weeks before reapplying..So I'm thinking, if I had to use anti-flea products again, I'd have to wait (have the kitties endure the itch) that long..i really wish i hadn't bought that bottle..*sigh*

you're welcome. No point in beating yourself over the head. We don't even know for sure if it was the stuff that is making Angel sick.

Ok, will supervise them when they play..I'm just concerned because I'm not home all the time..Sometimes Wagner even wakes Angel up, when he's trying to rest..Most of the time I just let him, or should I not allow that..?..

It's difficult to answer this simply because of course I can't see them in action. You can distract Wagner by playing with him yourself, (with a toy, not your hands) if you think Angel is needing to be left alone. If you are gone during the day and come home and find both kittens fine, no wounds on them, and no tufts of fur all over the hosue, they are probably okay.


Thanks for this very enlightening post..I'll try to not think about these 2 diseases yet..No need to worry about something that may not even exist right..?....Quick question though, these cannot possibly transmit to humans, right..?..To babies or small children maybe..?..

Right, no need to worry about that now. You could get them tested now if you want, becuase if the test is negative, then you don't have to test again and you won't worry. If they test positive they have to be retested at 6 months old because it could be a false positive.

FIV and FeLV are not transmittable to humans. I promise.


I won't be able to check the mom, because she was feral and, I think, got hit by a car....So i'm hoping she didn't have those diseases..

Oh, poor wee kitty.



All I can say is wow..It's like I'm reading an encyclopedia..Only not that boring..lol..Thanks so much..!!..

Aww, shucks, you flatter me! I have been participating in on line pet communities for 13 years, so have garnered a lot of knowledge. I have my favorite resources, and methods I've read about or worked out on my own.

I have had a lot of special needs cats over the years, they just seem to find me, so a lot of my knowledge comes from first hand experience. The rest is from research and other people's experiences. One thing I can assure you of is, if I don't know I won't give false info just to sound like I do know.

I currently share my life with four special needs cats.


*Btw, is it possible to post pictures here..?..*
I think there are several ways to load pictures in this forum, but the only way I am familiar with is your basic attachment. someone else can answer that question better than I can!

I've gotten quite attached to Wagner and Angel already so when you figure out how to do it, please let me know so I can see them!
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Unread 01-27-2009   #8 (permalink)
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How long ago was that?
That was the 22nd of January, a day after I got them..I noticed the change in Angel on the 23rd..

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Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
You're not stupid. You didn't know.
Thank you for making me feel better..

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Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
How is Angel doing now?
He's playing more now, wrestling with Wagner..I think he's giving as good as he's getting..He still needs some more time to recover and also spends more time sleeping..But it's improving..He DETESTS the antibiotics though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
plain yogurt is fine, though my kitty who likes yogurt prefers orange creme, pineapple or lime!

Any yogurt is okay, as long as there is no fake sugar in it.

About a fingerful a day. A teaspoon. If he'll eat it mixed in his food, great. See if he'll just lick it off the spoon first.

Yogurt is different from milk and shouldwill not cause diarrhea like milk will in some cats.

What is the Yakult?
I see..I always thought that it was lactose specifically that caused upset stomachs in cats..I was thinking of going for soy-based yoghurt..Is that alright..?..

They seem very sensitive to food not smelling like meat..So I think I'm better off fixing the necessary stuff with their meals..

Yakult (ヤクルト, Yakuruto?) is a Japanese probiotic milk-like product made by fermenting a mixture of skimmed milk with a special strain of the bacteria Lactobacillus casei Shirota. [Taken from Wikipedia..lol..]

Ingredients are as follows:

Standard Yakult (excludes variations such as in Yakult Light) contains [9]:

* Sugar (sucrose) to balance sourness with sweetness.
* Skim milk powder
* Dextrose
* Natural flavours
* Live Lactobacillus casei shirota strain , 6.5 billions per 65 mL bottle
(concentration of 108 CFU/mL)
* Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
you're welcome. No point in beating yourself over the head. We don't even know for sure if it was the stuff that is making Angel sick.
Again, thank you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
FIV and FeLV are not transmittable to humans. I promise.
A relief..!..We have at least 4 kids as neighbors..I wouldn't want anything bad happen to them..Or have the kitties separated from me..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
Aww, shucks, you flatter me! I have been participating in on line pet communities for 13 years, so have garnered a lot of knowledge. I have my favorite resources, and methods I've read about or worked out on my own.

I have had a lot of special needs cats over the years, they just seem to find me, so a lot of my knowledge comes from first hand experience. The rest is from research and other people's experiences. One thing I can assure you of is, if I don't know I won't give false info just to sound like I do know.

I currently share my life with four special needs cats.
Maybe you should have your own tv show..!..I haven't seen any shows about cats yet (other than those in the wild)..They're all mostly about dogs..Which is great if you have a pet dog, but with a pet cat, I really had to do a lot of digging..And very few people could help me because they thought cats should be kept outside since we have so many feral cats here..*sigh*..

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerlt View Post
I think there are several ways to load pictures in this forum, but the only way I am familiar with is your basic attachment. someone else can answer that question better than I can!

I've gotten quite attached to Wagner and Angel already so when you figure out how to do it, please let me know so I can see them!
I already uploaded two pictures....The quality wasn't as good as I hoped..I could barely see Angel in one of the pics..She was trying to sleep under our coffee table..Although the fact that she was black and the wood was also black might have something to do with it..lol..
 
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Unread 01-27-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Since the Yakult is already a probiotic, you probably don't need the yogurt.

Regarding soy based yogurt vs dairy based, I don't know the answer to that. I don't think soy is a problem for cats but do not know for sure.

Hopefully Angel was just feeling low from a URI and the antibiotic is kicking in. (what's antibiotic?) and the timing was just coincidence. It's very common for shelter kitties and resuces to present with URIs after adoption.

Your cats will be healthier, safer and live longer lives kept indoors.

I'm confused about gender. Originally you were callling both Angel and Wagner "he" but now you are calling Angel "she"??

If you do have a he and a she, once they are both healthy I advise not waiting on the spay and neuter or you may have a surprise in store. I don't think you want to be a gramma just yet!
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Unread 01-27-2009   #10 (permalink)
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*I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one* Hopefully you're right and it's just stress..

LOL..They're both he's..I just get confused with Angel because Angel is normally a girl's name..he was named by the girl who fostered them and I didn't have the heart to change it..
 
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